Has Western Christianity become neo-pagan?

by CzechRebel on July 7, 2013

in CzechRebel (blog admin), Orthodox Christianity, Protestant Christianity, Roman Catholic Church

Orthodox Christianity can be very hard to explain to Protestants or Roman Catholics. In some ways, the more conservative Protestant denominations have remained closer to Orthodoxy than has the Roman Catholic Church, which has meandered even further away since the schism. Even so, the difference between East and West are so great that many in the East consider Protestants and Roman Catholics to be two sides of the same coin.

The retired Orthodox bishop in this video demonstrates the difference between the Orthodox view of Christ’s sacrifice and how it is seen in Western Christianity. While his specific target is an address by a Southern Baptist, the same principles can be said in reply to Roman Catholics and to most other Protestants.

00#10: Is God Subject to Law

Uploaded on Feb 7, 2008 by Lazar Puhalo
Is God subject to Law? Is man a robot? Vladika Lazar answers these questions in Part 10 of this insightful series.

We are not here to start a fight; we are just laying out the difference between East and West. We expect a few biting comments, but please try to be civil.

{ 7 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Jeffrey R. Hardin July 8, 2013 at 6:25 pm

Southern Baptist are not, repeat, are not Protestants nor does the Southern Baptist have a Figure Head as does the majority of other churches have that they can be grouped up into one category as a denominational Church…
Each Baptist/Southern Baptist Church is independent from the other and have different branches and belief systems. Some for example are Calvinist, Lutherans and practice protestantism, and as such, I do not follow…We for the most part strictly believe in the living word for just the manner as it was figuratively written…
I’m applying a quick read that explains our beliefs and from where we evolved from scripturally…
We Southern Baptist believe that if you practice Calvinism, Lutheranism, Protestantism and any other form of worship than what is scripturally written, then you are most surely not of the Baptist faith period…
Baptist cannot be Protestants!!!!!

YHVH bless you. I share your emails daily and especially admire your Kosovo Serb support and especially the truth you deliver in each of your articles shining light on the truth for those who dare yearn for it’s sting.
They were and are being wrongly treated and I have for the longest time, tried to open up the many hearts and minds eyes and ears to the atrocity’s that were and are being committed against them…
My hearts prayers and sent petitions are for our Serbian Brothers & Sisters daily that YHVH guide them out of these trials of sufferings and that they find peace in their home lands once again away from their murderous captors and enslavers…
Keep up the great work and thank you for the daily emails, they are truly appreciated.

by Dr. Vernon C. Lyons


El (Mighty One) of Yisrael and the only way to Him is through His Son Yahushua: http://americanvision.org/8528/whats-happening-to-the-pca/#sthash.8vOj7YAw.dpuf

2 CzechRebel July 8, 2013 at 9:35 pm

Jeffery please! No offense was intended. You certainly don’t need to be lumped in with “Protestants” if you don’t want to.

However, last fall I had the pleasure to address a men’s Southern Baptist Bible Study. Someone lamented that the news had just come out that “the Protestants were not longer the majority in America.” Keenly aware that some Baptists do not like to be considered “Protestant”, I ask for a definition. He told “any Christian who is not Roman Catholic.” So, I asked if that would include me, an Eastern Orthodox Christian. He said, “yes.” I took it in stride.

I have a Northern Baptist friend who insists that if your Church does not belong to either the Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist Conference, your really are no “Baptist.”

But, I also have a Southern Baptist friend who won’t be part of any Baptist Church, which is part of any conference. He insists that he is also a “Calvinist.” Personally, I do have a lot of trouble understanding how anyone can be both Baptist and Calvinist. Of course, he doesn’t seem to share Calvin’s opinion about the Virgin Mary, but I have yet to find a Calvinist alive today who does. But, this guy does insist that the truest and most traditional Baptists are Calvinists.

We Orthodox are not Baptists, so we will let you folks work this one out.

It was my understanding that those Baptists who were part of those conferences have some sort of president, chair, or leader of some kind who holds that office in the conference–not in Baptist churches in general–for a year. It is sort of like your state medical, dental or bar associations have an annual president. If that is the case, I think that was what the speaker was referring to.

We are so glad that you like our blog. We are so glad that you support the Serbs in Kosovo. (That is what got me started on this work in the first place).

We will keep writing. You keep Baptizing by full immersion. (That is the way we do it too.)

Thanks for writing in and setting us straight.

3 Jeffrey R. Hardin July 8, 2013 at 9:56 pm

Oh my dear friend, please no! I took no offense at all. Just wanted to explain more in detail what we do believe in. I know there are vast differences in Christianity and our faiths and they often times collide.
Many times when explaining ourselves we will offend others, it’s not an intentional slight, it’s only a matter of ones faith, our personal faith and restored relationship with our father YHVH through his son Christ Yeshua…
I love your articles though I come from a different faith based group we have a common end goal that will prevail for those of us who believe in the on of YHVH as our one and only saving grace, the rest as you say, we can hash it out I believe hahahahahaha, being a Baptist, I know them to be a hard headed lot, and for one, know we are but branches on the tree of life “Salvation,” are we not.
Hopefully not the branches of weeds?

Forgive me ifn I seem to come on strong, it was most surely not my intentions Brother, and do keep up the great job and especially the beautiful Serbian cause you have adhered yourself to. They need our voices and most certainly our prayers…

4 CzechRebel July 8, 2013 at 10:45 pm

No, you were not too strong. We got the impression that you were trying to make your point in a somewhat amusing way. Our readers should learn right “from the horse’s mouth” about other views on faith. Orthodoxy is hard enough for an Orthodox person to explain, which is why we should not settle an explanation from someone who is merely “Orthodox friendly” when we have a better source. The term “Baptist” can be kind of elusive at times, too. Better you be the final word on that subject than me.

We are planning more interfaith articles in the future. Of course, the point of this video is that the biggest divide is East/West. Once we get beyond that point, it is hard to say what makes us different and alike. Here, in Dixieland, we Orthodox can count the Baptists Churches was pass on our way back and forth to Church. So, we do notice Southern Baptists. Ironically, we do have a few more things in common.

Fellowship meals tend to be a big part of both of our faiths. But, we call it “trapeza” or “coffee hour.” (My first Orthodox priest was never a happy camper when the women of the parish failed to feed the congregation after Divine Liturgy). We already covered full immersion, but we do it three times, so that makes us “Primitive Baptists”, right? It seems like you folks are pretty much sticking with the traditional morality thing, too. An additional mid-week service is the norm for us, at least here in Dixieland. Whether you are part of a conference or not, your Churches tend to be independent of each other. Our Bishops (each directing several Churches) are completely independent of each other. OK, we don’t exactly subscribe to the doctrine of Sola Sciptura, but people who come to visit us for the first time are shocked to find how much of an Orthodox service consists of Bible reading, if not Bible singing.

5 Jeffrey R Hardin July 9, 2013 at 3:54 am

LOL, Even when I’m trying to be serious my Southern wants to play, terrible ain’t it though? We Southern Baptist have our “trapeza” or “coffee hour,” as well, but it’s called Hardies † † †
We meet three times Sunday, ifn ya wish. Tuesdays for scripture night, Wednesday to go over our finances and to vote on any expenditures. Thursday’s are set aside for choir practice and scripture study…
Saturday morning is our coffee hour at Hardies or Denny’s for fellowship…

It’s great that we can learn off the other, more important still is that we have a joined cause. I love sites like this because they do teach me the importance to be patient, to take the time t learn about and understand other faiths that are doctrinally/scripturally alike even though the practices are not. Some, many, I am honestly intolerant of to the point that I’ll have nothing to do with them and will voice my concerns if they are improperly using scripture and especially interfaith groups that deceive others through false scriptures, there is where I draw the line to my tolerance.
I’m from SC and believe me, there are aplenty of Southern Baptist Churches about, especially along the bible belt across the South…
Ifn ya don’t mind, where bouts are your Dixieland?

Baptist Churches by State…
State ………………. Number …… Percent
Mississippi 869,942 33.81%
Alabama 1,313,907 32.52
Oklahoma 964,615 30.67
Tennessee 1,343,312 27.54
Kentucky 962,945 26.13
South Carolina 894,390 25.65
Arkansas 617,524 24.99
Georgia 1,582,520 24.43
N.C. 1,446,228 21.82
Texas 3,259,395 19.19
Louisiana 757,639 17.95
Missouri 789,183 15.42
Virginia 742,860 12.01
New Mexico 158,873 10.49
Florida 1,167,850 9.03
Alaska 28,718 5.22
Arizona 162,887 4.44
Wyoming 18,674 4.12
Kansas 96,524 3.90
Maryland 131,627 2.75

6 CzechRebel July 9, 2013 at 11:07 am

For security reason, I never disclose my current location. I am sure that more than one Muslim would like to take my head off. We get curses and death threats, from Muslims, all the time. (We got one curse yesterday and one today). Does the name Theo van Gogh mean anything to you?

Suffice it to say that I have spent a good deal of time in every State of the Confederacy. OK, I can say that about two or three Northern States too. When I think of SC, I think of that picture of a road sign that shows that the town of Clinton and the town of Prosperity are in opposite directions of each other.

You say that your are concerned about “improperly using scripture”? Are you SURE you are not Orthodox? LOL

Funny thing, whenever I get invited to a Baptist Church, the “trapeza” consists of mamas’ home cooking from several different mamas. However, I don’t think that Hardies and Dennys are the type of “modernism” that we are trying to avoid in your Churches.

It is really something the way that the Baptist faith resonates in the South like that. However, H.L. Mencken allegedly predicted that if the Orthodox Church and the South ever discover each other, the South would become Orthodox. I doubt that was a compliment either to the Orthodox Church or to his fellow Southerners, as he was supposedly and atheist.

7 Jeffret R Hardin July 9, 2013 at 1:21 pm

I understand fully CzechRebel…
Just find it hard thinking your being threatened when you guys are less threatening as mice are and reasonably fair, unbiased for the most part with your opinions and articles, though I’m sure they do in part reflect on your personal beliefs?!
But then again, they are who they are, and your truth stings, to them you are most definitely a threat to their cause, which ever that may be for the fleeting moment of their lives, especially in Kosovo where your so out spoken on ?
Oh, we do have our home cook vittles no doubt, yom yoms!
But for quick short of the days howdyns and fellowship, a coffee and gravy biscuit works well and Hardies & Dens does them good…
I believe our teachings are closer than we realize….
Y’all be blessed and in great care of our father YHVH, enjoy your beautiful loved ones and again, thank you for the great articles, I do enjoy them so and as I said, the Kosovo articles are desperately needed so we can keep the truth of what happened, and is happening there in the light of our fathers truth!
Thank you 😉
LOL, perhaps I do have some of that good old Southern Orthodoxy in me after all aye?

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