Rome Wasn’t Built in a Day, Nor Was Modern Anti-Serbian Racism

by William Dorich on December 1, 2007

in Austria, counterjihad, crime, Croatia, CzechRebel (blog admin), Germany, Islam, Kosovo, mainstream media, Montenegro, Nazism, Orthodox Christianity, Russia, Serbia, tyranny

Serbs: A Politically-Correct Outlet for Pent-Up Racism

Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

By CzechRebel

For the past decade and a half, or so, we have been witnessing one of the most flagrant examples of a racially-charged atmosphere against any ethnic people. Prior to the break up of Yugoslavia, hardly a soul seemed to know where Serbia was. We all knew that Serbia had something do to with the start of World War I, but the actual location of Serbia seemed to escape most people. Back in the early 1970s, I remember someone mistakenly saying that the Archduke was assassinated in Siberia. Although I knew the statement was wrong, I almost felt relieved. Finding Siberia within the USSR certainly would have been easier than finding Serbia within the Balkans.

Blog Comment Serves as a Catalyst

Since the early 1990s, Serbia has become much easier for many of us to find. Yugoslavia and its breakup have been in the news ever since. Commenting on a previous article, 1389 Blog reader Ed Mahmoud wrote us:

1389- OK, my understanding of the Yugoslavian civil war is mainly from MSM sources. And I know the fundamental, root cause, was the Ottoman invasion of the Balkans, and I am fully aware the Serbs resisted the Nazis more forcefully than any other Southern Slav group (that many Croats and Muslims collaborated with the Germans).

Ed Mahmoud asks some worthwhile questions. We are answering them here, because the matter is important enough, and complex enough, to deserve its own blog post, rather than be submerged within the comment thread of another article.

The Media

Rope, tree, jouranlist: Some assembly required!

Few people in the mainstream media have a clue concerning the Balkans. Few of them have ever been there. Those who have, generally show up for the filming of an event, and then take their helicopter out to spend the night in some nation further west where they feel more comfortable. Or they hole up in some hotel and rely on hearsay. But I have interviewed enough reporters and witnesses who are less in the mainstream, who have actually been there and spent several nights there. So, you are right in taking the mainstream media with a grain of salt.

However, the first thing that we need to look at is the religion. It is important to remember that nearly all Serbs who have any religion at all are Eastern Orthodox Christians.

The Ottoman Invasion

You are right about the Islamic invasion of the Balkans being the root cause. However, you must realize that it goes considerably deeper. To understand the significance of this Islamic invasion, you must also look at the goings on in the Christian world in that era and before. For centuries, the Early Church had been diverging into the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, until the schism became official in the year 1054. If you don’t have a background in Orthodox Christianity, understanding the interface of Islam with the Balkans can be difficult.

Suffice it to say that that many of the issues between the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church resurfaced during the Reformation. So, from a Protestant viewpoint, one might say that the Catholic Church didn’t learn from the Great Schism, so they had to relive it in the Reformation. From a Roman Catholic perspective, one might say that one departs from the Pope’s leadership at one’s own peril.

But that was to come later. The world of the Orthodox Church was being seriously threatened from the rise of Islam. That threat provided a motive for the Orthodox Church to “return to the fold.” The Byzantine Empire was rapidly falling and Russia was still a fledgling land. Help from the Western world might have saved the Balkans from Islamic invasion.

Yet, the Orthodox Church world felt it had no alternative but to go it alone against Islamic rule rather than submit to Rome. Considering some of the misdeeds of the Crusaders toward the Orthodox, one cannot blame them. Even so, at one time, all but one of the major Orthodox bishops had agreed to accept the Pope’s leadership in order to get Western military aid. Unlike Roman Catholicism, the Orthodox structure is decentralized and requires a consensus from the bottom up. What Orthodox bishops decide in their councils must be ratified both by their priests and by the people they serve. The general feeling amongst Orthodox Christians was that they would rather be Godly slaves under Muslim tyranny, than heretical servants of the Pope.

Coat of Arms of Serbia and Montenegro

Resisting the Nazis

To really understand the World War II resistance movements in the Balkans, we must again look to religion. Everyone knows that Hitler hated the Jews. However, he also hated other ethnic peoples and religions. Hitler hated most Slavic peoples and all Orthodox Christians. He also hated the Roma people, a/k/a Gypsies. Western history tells us of Hitler’s extermination of the Jews, and to a lesser extent, that of the Gypsies. We do hear a little bit of discussion of Hitler’s of mass killings of Russians and Poles. However, the Serbs were about number three on Hitler’s hit parade – and that is practically never mentioned.

So, while some other European ethnic groups may have had motives either to fight against the Nazis or to join them, the Serbs did not face a nice welcome mat with a Swastika in the center. This was because the Serbian people had vehemently refused to cooperate with the Nazis, so the feeling was mutual. After all, the Serbs had just freed themselves from centuries of domination from the both the Ottoman Turks and Austria-Hungarian Empire.

Was it a Snake or Slobodan Milosevic Who Tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden?

Well, yes, this is a ridiculous question, but after what the media has done to the story about the Balkan in 1990s, it almost seems logical. Our reader continues:

But I get the impression that Slobodan Milosevic led the Serbian people (and Serbs in other Yugoslav states) into violently surpressing the breakup of Yugoslavia, which may have had its roots, (besides the obvious ethnic and religious differences) in the perceived preferential treatment of Serbs in Tito’s Yugoslavia was also a factor.

Milosevic’s Trial

In The Hague’s dubious international court, Slobodan Milosevic presented one of the most skillfully self-defended cases in recent memory. In over a year’s time, the prosecution simply could not present any credible evidence of wrongdoing. The court faced a dilemma: either clear Milosevic, who had already been tried and convicted in world press, or convict him and incur the wrath and derision of every honest legal scholar for years, if not centuries, to come.

Instead, they looked to the precedent set in organized crime and quietly arranged for his death. While the court had no official power to impose a death penalty, they did have the power to deny him medical treatment. Russia offered to treat him and return him to The Hague when he recovered, but this kangaroo court could not risk the possibility Milosevic recovering.

If there had been any evidence that Milosevic was involved in any violent suppression, it would certainly have come up at his trial. It did not, so connect the dots.

Yugoslavian Civil Wars

Like it or not, wars are violent. The breakup of Yugoslavia was not inevitable. It might not have taken place at that time, but for the encouragement of Germany, the Vatican, and the US. If it did occur, the breakup of Yugoslavia need not have involved violence. Be that as it may, the formation of Yugoslavia was the outcome of poor judgment in the first place. (We are working on an article to this effect, which should be posted soon.)

Tito and the Serbs

On the issue of Tito, or reader is completely mistaken. Tito certainly did not give the Serbs any preferential treatment. In fact, they were expected to surrender their Serbian identity and become “Yugoslavs.” Tito was a lifelong enemy of the Serbian people. He believed that a strong Yugoslavia meant a weak Serbia, and that a strong Serbia meant a weak Yugoslavia.

While many remember Tito as leading Yugoslavia in peace, that peace came at a great price, to the Serbs most of all.

False Allegations of Genocide Are Criminal

Our reader continues:

But the Serbs did drive out Bosnians, especially Muslims, put some in camps, and killed a fair number. Where the pictures of starving prisoners in Serb camps fabricated? BTW, I have no respect for the UN, but I also clearly recall that Serbs kidnapped UN troops, and handcuffed some of them (I have seen the pictures) to light posts as hostages or human shields.

“Bosnians” Is a Misleading Term

There is no such ethnic group as “Bosnians.” Bosnia is a place. Anyone who lives there is a Bosnian, just as anyone residing in New York is called a “New Yorker.” If you and I moved to Bosnia, we would become Bosnians. Serbs, Croats and Muslims of Slavic descent all live there, and all can be called Bosnians.

Yes, Virginia, Those Were Fake Photos

Jared Israel debunked the myth of Serbian camps years ago. There is a film available that caught them in the act of faking those photos. To make a long story short, the camera crew, not the people being photographed, stood behind a fence. The people shown in the photo were outside the fence and were free to come and go. The man in the foreground who looks starved was suffering from a congenital disease; few people noticed that everyone else in the photo looks normal.

But once those photos came out, many unsubstantiated tales were embroidered around them and published in the media.

Where Are the Bodies?

We have heard so much about these alleged death camps. But no bodies, and no other evidence of such mass executions, have been found in the many years that the NATO powers have controlled the parts of Yugoslavia that were once at war. After World War II, there was massive evidence of Nazi death camps. In the 60-plus years since WWII, great strides have been made in forensic science.

I don’t remember seeing any pictures of Serbs holding UN troops hostage. However, not all pictures of Serbs doing nefarious acts actually involve Serbs. Unless you know the Serb in question, the first thing that you need to ask yourself is: Who is trying to make the Serbs look bad this time? There is ample evidence that Muslims have dressed up as Serbs in order to do bad things for the deception of news reporters and camera crews. This practice continues to this day in Kosovo.

Don’t Minimize – A Century Is Not a Decade

Our reader continues:

I am also aware that the Muslims in Kosovo have been on a jihad against Serbian civilians for almost a decade now.

Albanian Muslims have been playing the population bomb game in Kosovo for over 100 years. In 1900, there were very few Albanian Muslims in Kosovo. They have been moving in, legally or otherwise, and their religious leaders have been encourage them to multiply and overpopulate the province, ever since.

The Albanian Muslims sided with the Axis powers during World War II. Many of them served with Mussolini’s Fascist forces, where they took the opportunity to kill the Serbs, who, of course, were fighting for the Allies. Same jihad, different decades.

Ever Met an Actual Serb?

Our reader continues:

But unless I’m grossly misinformed (and I realize the MSM would spin towards Muslims against Christians), the Serbs were generally the aggressors in Bosnia and Croatia, and were responsible for radicalizing what were probably the most moderate Muslims (or apostates, as a Muslim who doesn’t want to dominate the kafir is not following the teaching of Muhammad) in the world, and drawing Arab jihadis to the region.

Yes, you were grossly misinformed. The Serbs were not the aggressors. People who are not acquainted with Serbs or Serbian-Americans are liable to fall for these allegations hook, line and sinker. People who know Serbs generally find it unbelievable that the Serbs would ever be the aggressor in any struggle. As a gentleman from Macedonia once told me, “The problem with the Serbs is that they are a bunch of Albanian lovers. They trust everybody and don’t understand why they are always getting attacked.”

Don’t get me wrong; I am not saying that there were no skirmishes where a Serb fired the first shot. Nor am I saying that the Serbs never went on the offensive. But the US government wanted to have the Serbs as enemies to satisfy some shortsighted political goals. Its propaganda arm, the mainstream media, provided stories to back them up. In the US, we consider all aggressors to be wrong. Therefore, if its propagandists can paint one side as the “aggressor,” we are halfway to going to war on the side of the supposed “underdog.”

Muslims, on the other hand, don’t need to be radicalized. They have a 1400-year history of springing into violent action. Sure, you can find “moderates” here and there, who claim that Islam is a religion of peace. But their claims are belied by history. Jihad has always been a crime of opportunity, not a retaliation against provocation.

Also See:

Technorati : , , , , , , , , , , , : , , , , , , , , , , ,
Ice Rocket : , , , , , , , , , , ,

Powered by Zoundry

{ 21 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Ed Mahmoud December 1, 2007 at 6:02 pm

I haven’t read the links yet, nor will I during Tennesee/LSU and Missouri/Oklahoma football, but it looks like some time and effort were put into this.


2 CzechRebel December 1, 2007 at 6:07 pm


The individual who made the comment about Serbs being “Albanian lovers” was from Macedonia, NOT Albania. Hopefully, we can fix this blog post shortly.

And two of us looked at this before it went up!

This has been fixed.

3 Henrik Ræder Clausen December 1, 2007 at 6:08 pm

This is stuff of highest interest. The dam broke for me last spring when I watched this documentary:

Yugoslavia: The Avoidable War

Believe it or not, I actually dreamt I was hunting down ghosts after having seen this.

Further reading:

Evan F. Kohlman: Al-Qaeda’s Jihad in Europe
Christopher Deliso: The Coming Balkan Caliphate
John R. Schindler: Unholy Terror
Peter Brock: Media Cleansing

Generic on Islam, yet relevant:
Serge Trifkovic: Defeating Jihad
Dore Gold: Hatred’s Kingdom (about Wahhabism)

I think we’ll be facing off with radical Islam extensively in the Balkans over the next decade or so.

And US policy over Kosovo? Blind, deaf and dumb.

Which in turn means we’d better do something.

With a bunch of friends, I translated and published a Danish version of this whitepaper on Kosovo:

Then include a polite letter pointing out some core issues and delivered a copy to each member of the Danish parliament.

Now I’m hoping that someone (probably left-wing) will pick the opportunity to blast our government for their blind following of US policies. Not that I think the Danish government is bad, not at all (like, we had some funky cartoons 2 years ago), it just could do much better getting the US government to understand European matters better.

4 Kevin December 1, 2007 at 8:57 pm

“Ever Met an Actual Serb?”

I met one before the bombing of Serbia. He had a visceral hatred for Croats, similar to what you what you’d expect from a jihadi watching someone burn the koran, or eat pork, or mention a Jew, look at a cartoon of mohamed, or…

Well, he was as filled with hatred towards Croats as a jihadi is filled with plain old hatred. I’m not convinced there were ANY good guys in that conflict. It’s pretty clear that Clinton and Europe picked the wrong team though.

5 Henrik Ræder Clausen December 2, 2007 at 6:39 am

I’ve been to Belgrade and met actual Serbs 🙂

And unless you happen to know them in advance from other contexts, they tend to have a deep rooted distrust in us Westeners. Really, I can’t blame them, it’s deserved.

There’s no doubt that the internal tension in Yugoslavia was heavy, holding in advance a significant potential for violence. There is, however, quite a step from potential to actual violence. You need someone to unleash the potential. Slovenia and its tiny suprise war was the spark, the US/German policies the real catalyst for unleashing the disaster.

It’s good to know the roots. Then it’s time to move forward. My opinion is that this means defeating the Wahhabi/mafia network, which is no small task.

The US, as usual, are making fools of themselves 🙁

6 Gramfan December 2, 2007 at 6:58 am

I appreciate your work on this 1389. I remember being utterly and completely confused by the MSM when this was happening. It is very enlightening. Thanks for posting it:)

7 Henrik Ræder Clausen December 2, 2007 at 6:24 pm

As an example of what can be done to influence the problem, here’s a letter we sent from the Danish Culture Society to the left wing (the right wing got a more elaborate version) of the Danish parliament, along with a Danish translation of this Kosovo whitebook. Paper, not electronic:

Dear member of parliament

First, let me congratulate you on the recent election. It was an exiting campaign and we are looking forward to a period of work focusin on principles and practical results.

One of the prime items on the agenda will be the future of Kosovo. The United States, as we are aware, is pressing to make Kosovo an independent state. Given their strategic interests in the area, not least their desire to keep the large Bondsteel military base in Kosovo, this is quite understandable. Unfortunately, American understanding of and respect for the minorities in the area seems limited, and it seems odd that the US should dictate the creation of new European states.

Here in Europe we tend to have a more nuanced understanding of things, and several European countries oppose the creation of a new state here, for several reasons.

– It is, in itself, dangerous to order the division of other sovereign countries. This is a violation of international law, which in this case is primarily upheld by – Russia!

– The Serbian minority in Kosovo can hardly be protected properly. The ‘Kosovo Kristallnacht’ on March 17th-19th 2004 is an example of the atrocities the Serbians can expect in an independent Kosovo heavily influenced by radical Islam.

– The battle against mafia and Islamic extremists (Saudi-funded Wahhabis in particular) would suffer badly by making Kosovo independent.

– Last, but not least, an independent Kosovo would constitute a reward of the longterm ethnic cleansing that has taken place against the original Serbian inhabitants of the province.

American policy in Kosovo is lacking nuance and will fan bitterness and radical nationalism in Serbia, which is not good for future stability in the areal. It will also push Serbia towards allying with Russia, which is not promising for future development of demoracy and human rights. Finally, the policy is in violation of international law and detrimental to respect for it, which will be the root for even more problems in the future.

Unfortunately, the Danish government has so far decided to follow the Bush administration policy without conditions or reservations. The very least one could ask for in return for support of Kosovo independence would be uprooting of the radically intolerant Wahhabi sect of Islam, which has inspired Osama bin Laden to create such monstrous attacks on the free world. This is uninspired simplicity in a complex problem, which requires tact and sincere respect for all parts in the problem, that a proper solution may be found.

We therefore suggest you to challenge the government in this critical issue, where the human and cultural issues deserve better than being cut out in a simplified American one-size-fits-all model. The booklet enclosed is an introduction to the atrocities the Serbian population and culture have been subjected to, in spite of the protection promised by NATO.

Best regards

Henrik R Clausen
Society for Danish Culture

8 Ed Mahmoud December 2, 2007 at 10:15 pm

I don’t remember seeing any pictures of Serbs holding UN troops hostage.

I sure do.

Economist, June, 1995

article, with picture, about a Canadian Serb tracked down and arrested for kidnapping and holding Canadian UN peacekeeper as a human shield in Bosnia

I am of the opinion there were enough bad actors on all sides, but the Croats and Bosnian Muslims had better PR.

9 Ed Mahmoud December 2, 2007 at 10:23 pm

As far as Kosovo goes, I think it is an attempt by the Bush Administration and the Arabist State Department to convince the Arabs and Muslims the US is fair and balanced, depsite the US support for Israel.

1) US support for the only civilized nation in a region of barbarians is fine by me.

2) The Muslims are incapable of gratitude, and will just view US support for a new terror state in the Balkans as a sign of weakness. Clinton took the Muslims side in Bosnia, and again in Kosovo, and we get nada gratitude for that. No need to repeat that mistake.

10 1389 December 2, 2007 at 10:55 pm


There are indeed bad actors in all wars, including in the US military. However, the difference is that we punish anybody in our military who commits infractions, but the Bosnian and Albanian Muslims did not and still do not.

The government of Serbia (called Yugoslavia at that time) did, in fact, impose stringent sentences on anybody they caught committing what we would think of as war crimes.

Unfortunately, there were also some instances of jihadists stealing or counterfeiting Serbian military or police uniforms or insignia, and committing wrongdoing for the benefit of the press while impersonating Serbs, and even of using bombs to kill their own people in order to blame it on the Serbs. As if all that were not enough, dead bodies of Serbs who had been killed by Muslims were misidentified as being dead Muslims, so that other Serbs could be blamed all over again for that.

This has gone on for so long that many Serbs just gave up on ever being able to convince anybody of the truth. That’s because, even though individual Serbs can say that they never witnessed other Serbs committing war crimes, there is no effective way to prove a negative with regard to the Serbian people as a whole. That is why Americans, at least at one time, believed in the principle of “innocent until proven guilty.” Might be a good idea to take another look at that!

11 CzechRebel December 3, 2007 at 1:32 am


It sounds like you met a Serb with an unusual sense of self-preservation. Given what they have been through the last century, I am surprise that more of them don’t have such an attitude about rival ethnic groups.

I have met a few like that, too, but very few. You also get a few more cosmopolitan ones who think that all people from Bosnia, even fellow Serbs, are a bunch of hicks.

However, you will find Serbs to generally be very inclusive people. Ask to visit their Church for a Serbian Christmas Eve service (January 6th on our Western calendar) and they will want to “adopt” you. If you try to dance their folk dance, they will consider you part of the family. One Serbian philosopher once defined a Serb as anyone who keeps the Christmas Slava and dances the Kolo regardless of actual ancestry.

12 Sophocles December 3, 2007 at 2:39 am

Thank you for this post. I referenced it on my own blog here:

13 Henrik Ræder Clausen December 3, 2007 at 6:19 am

“the Croats and Bosnian Muslims had better PR.”

I heard they both hired real PR agencies to handle the situation. The Serbs, not thinking too deeply here, didn’t.

14 november1981 December 3, 2007 at 6:29 am

The comment above by “Kevin” is sadly typical of how so many have come to form their opinions on the recent Balkan conflicts.

Apparently he’s met one Serb who hates Croats and so naturally of course all Serbs are bigots and therefore we can conclude that there were no “good guys” in that conflict so damn them all to hell.

Comparing Serbs to fanatical muslims is just silly and not worth responding to, but the charcacterization of Serbian society as a whole as being bigoted and intolerant is demonstrably false.

For instance, in the south-western region of Serbia known as Sandzak-Raska, there is currently a population of around 200,000 Serbian muslims. They are an outright majority in the larger towns such as Novi Pazar, Prijepolje and Sjenica and have equal rights the same as any other citizen; they have equal representation in the police force, they serve as mayors and have ministers in the national parliament, they play on the Serbian national basketball and soccer teams and just recently, one of them was Miss Serbia. They are free to practice their faith without any meddling from Belgrade as is attested by the sight of women wearing the headscarf or the full body covering and the wailing of the Islamic call to prayer which blares from the mosques five times daily- indeed, they are in a much better situation with respect to freedom of worship and human rights than any non-muslim people in any muslim nation.

During the war in ’92, while muslim forces ethnically cleansed tens of thousands of Serbs from eastern Bosnia, which is on the border with Sandzak, no retaliatory expulsions or ethnically-motivated violence was directed at the muslim population of Serbia; despite the fact that thousands of muslims from Sandzak headed to Bosnia to serve as volunteers or paid mercenaries to fight the Serbs. Also worth mentioning is the tens of thousands of muslims from Bosnia who sought and recieved food and shelter in Serbia during the conflict.

Moving to the south of Serbia, on the border with Kosovo and Macedonia, there is still a population of Albanians that is numbered close to 100,000. Well, it was around that number when I checked a few hours ago; but taking into consideration the abnormally high birthrate among Albanians, that number could by now be well over 110,000. And these Albanians(whatever their number), are free to speak their language, build their mosques and cultural centers, operate their businesses and serve in government just as any other Serbian citizen; which is a situation that is in marked contrast to the near non-entity Dhimmi status that the Serbs still remaining in neighbouring Kosovo are subjected to.

I should also mention Vojvodina in the north of Serbia, which is only 65 percent Serb- the rest being Hungarian, Croat, Rom,Slovak etc. It is a fact that before one shot was fired in Croatia’s violent secession from Yugoslavia, tens of thousands of Serbs were ethnically cleansed from that country in a campaign of murder and intimidation fomented directly by Franjo Tudzman and his ruling HDZ party; with the final number of Serbs permanently expelled from Croatia at the end of the conflict being in the range of half a million. In stark contrast to this, no ethnically motivated violence was directed at Serbia’s Croat population during the wars in Croatia and Bosnia.

I could mention the Rom/Gypsy population, which is scattered all over Serbia with a large concentration in the south. But just google the term “guca” and you will come across the website for the Dragacevo Brass Festival which is an annual event that gathers all the brass bands from around Serbia(mostly Gypsy) for a week-long celebration of music, dance and excessive drinking; which, for the last few years, has been drawing crowds upwards of 500,000 people-tens of thousands of them being most jovial and very visibly un-threatened non-Serbs. A kind of celebration like this is most certainly not the product of a bigoted, closed society. As a matter of fact, some of the Serb and Gypsy musicians one would encounter at the festival have been cleansed from Kosovo- either in the immediate aftermath of the NATO invasion or after the pogrom of 2004. And what’s more, if you visit any of the remaining enclaves of Serbs in Kosovo, you will see a good number of Gypsies who live there-operating shops, selling cigarettes on the street or in a cafe sipping coffee and plum brandy as they talk with their Serb neighbors. And I can speak from first-hand experience that the stranger feels very welcome in Serbia and the Serb enclaves of Kosovo when he asks for directions to the monastery, or when he takes a seat at a cafe to order a beer or something to eat, or when he nods hello to a group of teenage girls passing by on their way home from school and his hello is answered by giggles and blushing and mirthful “Dobar Dan”s. And “welcome” is definitely not the word to describe what the traveller feels in the fully cleansed, mono-ethnic Albanian areas of Kosovo or Macedonia or Montenegro, where he feels a distinct sense menace and not-belonging and he’s asking himself: Where the f*** am I and how do I get to Detroit!

No, the lie that Serbs are this xenophobic, intolerant band of bigots is one of the Big Fat Lies to have come out of the recent Balkan conflicts. And like the lies told about Israel: that Fascist Apartheid State, Jenin!Jenin!, Sharon the Butcher etc.- repeated ad infinitum, only in order to sufficiently de-humanize the people and the Nation so that they be forced to sacrifice more and more land in concession after suicidal concession to eventual non-existence as part of a payment of protection money from the Eurabian whore to her Islamic pimp.

Punjab, Kashmir, the Mandate, Cypress, Bosnia, Kosovo, Gaza- where will it end?

It ends only with Submission

15 Ed Mahmoud abu Always After Me Lucky Charms December 3, 2007 at 9:41 am

November 1981

Good post.

16 Svetlana December 4, 2007 at 3:24 am

Excellent article and exceptionally educated comments! I must say I’m always pleasantly surprised to find people who talk about the Balkans and Yugoslav civil wars, the Serbs, Kosovo province and the rest, who actually know what they’re talking about… after two decades of piles of MSM garbage, distortions and sheer rubbish, keeping a clear head and a firm grip on the facts is quite a feat in itself.

17 Vatiz Djabroga December 8, 2007 at 5:25 am

The author of the text writes:

“There is no such ethnic group as “Bosnians.” Bosnia is a place. ”

Could one also state:

There is no such ethnic group as “Serbians”. Serbia is a place.

There is no such ethnic group as “Romanians”. Romania is a place.

There is no such ethnic group as “Germans”. Germany is a place.

There is no such ethnic group as “Brazilians”. Brazil is a place.

There is no such ethnic group as the “Japanese”. Japan is a place.

The perverse logic of racism reduces the world to that which it finds suitable, happily and promptly discarding everything else that blocks the rosy picture.

18 CzechRebel December 8, 2007 at 10:23 pm

Vatiz Djabroga, you are—for the most part—mistaken. Some places are named for the ethnic people who inhabit the region. Some regions have names not related the ethnic people who inhabit those regions.

There are Serbian people, who speak a Serbian language and have a Serbian culture. A country known as “Serbia” exists because so many Serbs live there.

Likewise, There are an Albanian people, who speak an Albanian language, who have an Albanian culture. A country known as “Albania” exists because so many Albanians live there.

On the other hand, my father’s family came from Bohemia. Many years ago, some of my relatives even referred to themselves as “Bohemians.” Yet, they were Czech people, who spoke the Czech language. Their culture was Czech. Some of their neighbors in the old country were actually German. They spoke German and had German culture. Yet, they lived in Bohemia. We could call the Czechs and Germans living there “Bohemian,” but it would be very confusing. There really is no such ethnic group, as “Bohemia” is merely a place name. If we started talking about relationships between Germans and Bohemians, it would be very confusing. We might be talking about the relationship between Germans who live in Bavaria and Germans who Bohemia or we might be talking about Czechs and Germans who both live in Bohemia. (Bohemia is part of the Czech Republic today and was part of the former Czechoslovakia.)

Transylvania is place. There are no ethnically “Transylvanian” people. The Ruhr Valley is a place; there are no ethnically “Ruhr Vallian” people. In the U.S., we have individual States, such as New York. We may use the phrase “New Yorker,” but this does not refer to any specific ethnic group.

So clearly we have some place names without ethnic significance, and other place names that also identify the ethnic people who inhabit them.

Poland is a great example of place that is so named because of its ethnic population. Before World War II, Poland was much further east. After World War II, the Russians insisted that Poland be move westward. Today’s eastern Poland was western Poland before World War II.

Clearly, Bosnia is a place not named for any specific ethnic people. That is why we refer to it inhabitants as Bosnian-Croats, Bosnian-Serbs, Bosnian-Muslims, etc.

19 Vatiz Djabroga December 10, 2007 at 7:08 am

Thanks, CzechRebel, that explanation (caveat) makes your initial statement more reasonable; now, reasonable people might still disagree with you regarding the issue of Bosnian ethnicity. The old saying about languages, “a language is a dialect with an army and a navy”, could also arguably be applied to “imagined communities” we call nations, or ethnic groups. There are many people who consider themselves “Bosnians” regardless of their religion. Many, though not all, Bosnian Serbs and Croats have issues with that, which is understandable, but that’s how many nations are formed. It takes time for that identity to grow to the point where it becomes acceptable to the sceptics. In my opinion, to say that the Bosnian nation doesn’t exist because Bosnia is a place, which is basically what you wrote in the original article, seemed a flawed argument.

20 1389 December 12, 2007 at 7:51 pm

Kosovo 101: The REAL reason for the US/NATO genocide against the Serbs.

21 LazarOfSerbia January 1, 2008 at 4:20 pm

@Vatiz Djabroga

There is no “Bosnian ethicity”, Bosnian muslims invented term “Bosniak” as a propaganda trick during the war. In the area we always called “Bosnia-n-” everyone who lives in Bosnia (Serbs, Croats, Muslims and other), but now in the MSM “Bosnia-k-s” are only Bosnian muslims, which implies that “Bosnia” is their land… Simple and effective trick used as Jihad tactic before. The same way, Kosovo Albanians call themselves “Kosovars”. Both words are invented during the war and were not in use before. “Kosovo polje” means “Field of blackbird” in Serbian, it has no meaning in Albanian. So only genuine “Kosovars” (Blackbird-people) can be the Serbs. Albanians have their own country – Albania.

Imagine the Serbs in Chicago start calling their selves “Illinoians” and claim the state of Illinois as our land!? With 10 children per family this goal is achievable in a two or three generations.

Leave a Comment

{ 2 trackbacks }

Previous post:

Next post: